Talk:Beginner's guide

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B - This article is considered a B-class article on the wiki quality scale

Initial version[edit source]

I'm pretty much done with my version, and of course I anticipate differing opinions on how to write this.
So let's begin chatting about what we want to achieve for this page.
As a likely entry page for *new* players, I feel that:

  • It should help new player prioritize their attention. (i.e. do not be too comprehensive by throwing too much info/options)
  • It should cover all essential areas; my take: exploration, economy, research, diplo, war.
  • Prepare the new player on initial challenges (i.e. expectation management).
  • Be blorgly

Anomalacaris (talk) 19:46, 12 May 2016 (CEST)

Great starter, Anomalacaris. I do have a remark about the interpretation of Research: the player does not "spend research points" per se but rather direct the research teams on how to invest those points.

--Time Traveler (talk) 22:50, 12 May 2016 (CEST)

Following style guidelines would be great, as it would give a much more 'professional' reading imho --Spyhawk (talk) 11:57, 13 May 2016 (CEST)

Merge[edit source]

Why have the diplomacy, exploration, and warfare pages been tagged 'to be merged' with this page? aantia 22:22, 12 May 2016 (BST)

I initially thought everything was covered in other pages, but now I feel Diplomacy should be expanded and kept separate. However, Exploration and Warfare are very succinct, with all content covered elsewhere, so they'd be perfect candidate to expand the Beginner's guide itself. --Spyhawk (talk) 11:57, 13 May 2016 (CEST)
Might just mean that more stuff should be merged into Exploration and Warfare. I removed the merge tags. ~ Meneth (talk) 12:14, 13 May 2016 (CEST)
Well I don't know. Both of these pages are just describing what to do in a specific context (exploration, and well, war), like a guide, but they don't cover game mechanics themselves. Time will tell, but I honestly don't know what to add to these pages that aren't already better covered in other pages. --Spyhawk (talk) 23:43, 13 May 2016 (CEST)
Also, the Governance page was in a similar situation, and it got merged with Empire by someone else (which makes sense imho). --Spyhawk (talk) 23:45, 13 May 2016 (CEST)

Rewrite[edit source]

Below is a description of rewrites, where the page has been tagged delete the comments not needed and add in any special instructions.

This page has been tagged as a {{Rewrite}}, the below issues have been found when the page is compared to the style guidelines

  1. Use of you/your: Please change to third person
  2. Links in section names: Use the {{main}} template instead
  3. Absence of links: Links missing or replaced by bold or italics which do not function
  4. Absence of SVersion tags
  5. Excessive length, this is a first beginner's guide and should be easy to read in one sitting.

Dauth (talk) 17:47, 10 October 2017 (CEST)

Previous rewrite discussion[edit source]

With regards to switching to third-person, what would you prefer something like this to look like "These will define the character of your empire and open or close certain gameplay opportunities to you. You will be able to select from a handful of government types based on which ethics you have chosen. Your ethics will also determine the appearance of the room behind your leader."

PaulMClem (talk) 15:34, 28 March 2017 (CEST)

We prefer the use of third person instead of you/your. So the example phrases instead become: "These will define the character of the player's empire and open or close certain gameplay opportunities to the player. The player will be able to select from a handful of government types based on which ethics were selected. The ethics will also determine the appearance of the room behind the empire's leader.". These are just a first pass and the phrasing could use further improvement. Also if you're interested in earning tickets for the contest be aware it doesn't start until Utopia/Banks is released. Signing your edits is easiest done using four tildes ~~~~. Hope this helps Dauth (talk) 15:42, 28 March 2017 (CEST)

Ah, yes, that does sound much better. Not overly concerned about earning tickets. Just happy to keep the Wiki as sharp and accurate as possible. PaulMClem (talk) 15:50, 28 March 2017 (CEST)

Is it just me or do huge chunks of italicised text look almost blurry? If these blocks are for newbie info then perhaps prefix them with some sort of icon i.e. a light-bulb, something indicating ideas or help. Then just leave the text as normal. I'll see if I can find something which suits and demo on one of the paragraphs --PaulMClem (talk) 19:27, 13 April 2017 (CEST)

the GUI description is horrifically outdated[edit source]

the section on the GUI includes mention of "core sector systems" which have not existed in ages, lacks the alloys and consumer goods and mentions rally points which have not existed since 2.0--Galactic Ascension (talk) 17:58, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Possible major rewrite needed to properly explain mechanics[edit source]

I’ve found that this article may be very difficult to follow for newer players, namely for the following reasons:

  1. Especially when talking about ethics, the article goes too in depth into a bunch of economy-related details before explain what a lot of those concepts mean (perhaps recommend that a player choose the UNE or the COM first instead to avoid this issue).
  2. The economy section is very vague on how a player should go about developing their worlds
  3. There is very little information on how to actually navigate the game (for example, ordering a science ship to survey systems, and which systems are recommended to survey). Other wikis have guides that show this, even though tutorials exist within those games.
  4. It’s a big wall of text with a few icons here and there

The obvious issue with these points is that properly explaining how to play Stellaris and it’s mechanics in one page is going to be inherently challenging and I doubt it’s even possible to do so.

Perhaps splitting the Beginner’s Guide into multiple pages explaining the different mechanics in a less detailed-oriented way than their actual mechanic pages may be more useful, if not harder to update, than as is current. I like the idea of having smaller, consecutive articles for each core mechanic (which are relatively undetailed, implying freedom of choice to the user, but leaving clear instructions on how they work) with more details on how to navigate the UI (which is excessive, but clear), leaving room for the heavier details including numbers for each District/Job or Event IDs or whatever to remain in their own pages. We would obviously have to balance mechanical details with the length of the guide, and work out what necessarily needs to be in the guide and what doesn’t.

Alternatively, we could replace the guide as it is and produce more of a step-by-step tutorial on how to navigate the core mechanics, while leaving much of the exploration on how to manage their empire after the initial tutorial up to the player. It would likely be similar to the current in-game tutorial but leaves room for more detail.

Either way, the way the guide currently stands just doesn’t work for me for the reasons above, and there should be at least some rewriting of (in particular) the economy portions to better explain their mechanics. I’m not totally sure how to proceed right now, which is why I’ve dumped these (probably bad) ideas in the talk page. --RA3236 (talk) 13:25, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I think breaking it up and simplifying the guide are the way to go. This can be handled more in depth after the contest. If you wish, you can strat prototyping on your user page. ~ SolSys (talk) 20:26, 18 April 2021 (UTC)