Difference between revisions of "Talk:Ship designer"

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(General Characteristics Table)
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:What part of it did you find hard to understand?  If it's the column labels, they have tooltips.  --[[User:Super aardvark|Super aardvark]] ([[User talk:Super aardvark|talk]]) 20:24, 25 May 2017 (CEST)
 
:What part of it did you find hard to understand?  If it's the column labels, they have tooltips.  --[[User:Super aardvark|Super aardvark]] ([[User talk:Super aardvark|talk]]) 20:24, 25 May 2017 (CEST)
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::As an example, can you explain about the line for "Shard Throwers"? They are described as "K" but I can't see any reference to "Shard Throwers" in the Kinetic table below. Also searched the Wiki and can find no other reference to a "Shard Thrower". Just don't know how this table relates to the ones below, which it says it's a summary of --[[User:PaulMClem|PaulMClem]] ([[User talk:PaulMClem|talk]]) 23:40, 25 May 2017 (CEST)

Revision as of 21:40, 25 May 2017

Assessment

Outliner top.png
C - This article is considered a C-class article on the wiki quality scale

Improvements

The weapon sections should have a different icon for power usage instead of energy credits The rate of fire (cooldown) should be listed next to min/max/dps. The first section has that, and all others do not. If anyone ever figures out things like missile projectile travel speed or hitpoints those should be added.

Component / Module

Should we make a component/module stats page or throw it all on this page? Christopholes (talk) 21:08, 10 May 2016 (CEST)

We should start by having it all here. If it turns out too large, we'll split then. Premature optimization splitting is the root of all evil. ~ Meneth (talk) 21:13, 10 May 2016 (CEST)
All right I'll start making tables later. Christopholes (talk) 21:15, 10 May 2016 (CEST)
I don't have an account or anything, and this is the first thing I have ever posted on a wiki so don't shoot me for doing it wrong, but I have been playing the game since it came out basically none stop. I started to compile a list of each weapon and the damage they do based on a Damage Per Minute Module, so that I could see the long term advantages versus the disadvantages of each weapon to find out how they handle in long term engagements versus the single shot stat that you get in the game. Is this something you would be interested in having for the wiki? I was going to make the list for myself and my friends that play the game to help and see what weapons are best used when and where, and eventually planned on including the energy cost, as well as the range of each individual type, but I haven't gotten that far yet. I will check back in a day or two to see if you responded or not to my inquiry on this matter. -MadHatter
@MadHatter post the table in discussion if you're unsure, or a link to it. -PG908 (too lazy to log in)
Alright, cool. I will work on putting something together over the weekend on Google Spreadsheets and get the link up here as soon as I can. It will probably be missing a few of the weapons from them, because I haven't had the opportunity to research all of the technology yet, but hopefully I can get that done as well over the weekend. -MadHatter
Alright, so I got it started and figured I would share what I have done with you guys for now so you can see that layout and format I am doing, as well as to let me know what you think of it, anything you would like to see added to it, anything you don't like about it. Feedback would be very much appreciated.
-MadHatter
Looks like you guys did something else, so never mind. -MadHatter


What does the "Windup" column mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.165.30.151 (Talk) 19:36, 26 May 2016‎ (CEST)

From what I gathered it represents activation time. ~ SolSys (talk) 10:16, 29 May 2016 (CEST)

Slot theory for class/section balance

I had some thoughts on how the Devs balanced the seperate ship (sections). I call it the "slot theory". Basically the sections are designed in a way that the count of slots always adds to the same. For this calculation 1 medium slot counts like 2 small. 1 large as 2 medium or 4 small. And 1 hangar equals 1 large slot.

Example Corvette:

  • Interceptor: 3 small weapons, 5 small utility = 3 weapon + 5 utility = 8 slots
  • Shifter: 1 small weapon, 2 medium utiltiy, 3 small utility = 1 weapon + 7 utitlity = 8 slotes
  • Striker: 1 medium weapon, 1 small weapom, 5 small utility = 3 weapon + 5 utility = 8 slots

The other ships end up with the followign slot distribution:

  • Corvette: 8
  • Destoryer: 8/8; 9/8 for hope breaker
  • Cruiser: 10/13/9
  • Battleship: 21/23/20

This math seems to work out through all ship sections except the hope breaker (where I am not even sure why. It makes total sense that one small slot was shifted to utility, so the sum should not change). It helps that with exception of the Shifter and Hope breaker all sections have the same Utility slot layout. This would have value for modding and ship design alike. How the slots a distributed clearly identifies a role for a certain section. Shifter would be ideal for a midgame "PD guard for Longrange weapon ships" design, for example. Or really just any "Corvette tank" design. Due to having inferior weapon, superior utility slots.

--The Founder (talk) 12:33, 3 June 2016 (CEST)

This section was originally written prior to the weapons rework (when corvettes could still field PD). Let's see if it still holds up afterwards with the new slots. Overall it does seem as if the new types of slots are simply subtypes of existing ones. All they realy did is lock them into specific shipsizes/hull sections, to add some opportunity cost and control the total count on the battlefield for those special weapons:
Point Defense is a special type of Small slot. The picket Destroyer section has an extra Medium Utility Module to offset the difference
Torpedos are a special type of Medium Slot.
Hangars still a special type of Large Slot.
XL weapons kind of count like two L slots, based on the single example we have.
Auxilary Utility slots are simply locked by shipsize. Nothing else
I would also guess that Small slot equivalents translate to Medium Slot Auxilary equivalent. Or that small Aux Slots only count as half a small weapon slot. If so, small Aux Slots now is the smalest denominator.
Weponslot distribution by hullsizes:
  • Corvette: 3
  • Destroyer: 4/2; Picket has 3, but +1 medium Utility Slot
  • Cruiser: 4/6
  • Battleship: 8/12/4

--The Founder (talk) 22:59, 6 February 2017 (CET)

Point Defence

How exactly PD weapons work?

How much hit damage one can to destroy particular missile/torpedo/small craft?

How many time/shots PD have before torpedo hits?

How PD in different slots divide incoming missile volleys?

Is any evasion percent for torpedos?

How "swarm" missiles exactly work?

How work fighters?

Is any difference in behavior "flac" L PD? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.98.74.199 (Talk) 21:03, 5 June 2016‎ (CEST)

I wish there were clear answers, but there are not. The inclaritiy/issues here a big reason missiles do not work as intended yet and might be subject to heavy change in future patches:
  • They try to hit the missile, before it hit's it's target. They do hit missiles not aimed at the own craft. If no missile is in range, they will shoot at ships.
  • That is a big question/prone to future rebalancing. As far as can be told bigger missiles/torps do not have lineary bigger HP. They should have 2 and 4 times as many HP. Having many missiles is beneficial - the 1.1.0 itteration of hte gamerules.
  • This is a formula depending on Missiles Speed, PD Range and PD cooldown. But since PD shoots at missiles targetting other craft, this is not really that much of a question. Yes you can build PD screening ships. That is obviously what the Shifter Crovette core is there for.
  • They shoort the first missile/torp comming into range. There is no overkill of torps/missiles as far as can be told
  • There is some data something like this was intended. But no clear data if it is in and working as intended, as evasion calculation itself might be faulty.
  • By being a shitton of missiles and thus overwhelming PD in a Saturation Attack.
  • Fighters are effectively mobile PD. The shoot down Bomber and Missile weapons equally. They seem to be able to keep up with the frontline. Can't quite make out if they follow the agressive ships of your side or rush headfirst into enemy backyard ships. Might be prone to future changes
--The Founder (talk) 09:30, 6 June 2016 (CEST)
upd: I have find a little data talking on hangar craft in game resources
  • All F&B have range 8, All fighters have speed 3.5, bombers - 3.0; Swarm fighter have speed 2 and range 6
  • 1/2/3 fighters have 8/10/12 hits, bombers a 1 hp higher - 9/11/13 (what a scanty difference!), default scout "fighter" - 7, swarm - 15 hits. All F*B have ZERO shields and armor. Any clues about evasion, the sad possibility that it is zero too (PD guns have quite low accuracy).
  • All fighters have shield dam. multiplier 1(normal damage), zero shield and armor penetration, bombers instead have 100% shield pen and 50% armor pen. Swarm fighter have 100% shield pen. and 66% armor pen.
  • All craft have 3.4% regen. per day (I dunno how they make rounding that 0.2.. hp/day regen)
  • All craft have 100% accuracy.
  • 4(?) crafts per hangar?
  • According to this numbers it is not too difficult to evaluate almost all fighter-PD rival :)
  • Any data about missile HP at all.
  • Fighter have speed 3.5. Missiles AND torpedoes have speed 5(!). I can't figure is a fighters really better with rockets via PD or at all.
  • I am not sure can "normal" guns target craft and missiles at all. To make target choice game use some algorithm, it seems that small and weak targets have a penalty to target them. Maybe PD guns have different algorithm (also, it low range gives less choice). I am not sure can bombers target fighters or craft.
The fun additional thing - a little change of game resources one will put spaceports and civil stations to the design menu.
The spaceport menu is very bugged. 7-piece station wouldn't fit into screen. Open weapons slots have main section only, and the station have ANY open utility slots at all. Due to this, you can't fit any reactor modules, and so, the spaceport can be fitted only by cheater "space station laser/gun/missile" with 0 energy consumption. And you can't fit it manually due to absence of tech.
Mining/research/outpost station can be freely refitted, but it have a little of weapon slots and only 3 utility slots.
Terraform/observation/wormhole have not any slots at all.
Outpost station have a very funny utility component - a "border_extruder". Oh, yes! In fact there are even three grades of it with 15/20/25 "extrusion range", but I can't manage to get other two (the only other difference is a strange line " ai_weight={weight=1/2/3}) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.98.44.102 (Talk) 07:02, 8 June 2016 (CEST)

Noticeable changes 1.2.0 beta

Excess power now gives a percentile bonus to Evade Chance. Exact formula unknown. Example values (corvette): +1% at 2, +4% at 12, 5% at 22, 6% at 32

Weapon ranges have been changed and max range increased. Red+Blue Laser now goes 30/50/70 units in all 3 sizes. Red Shard Emiter is 20/60/80 — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Founder (Talk) 01:23, 22 June 2016‎ (CEST

The Excess Power value is also applied to ship Speed, and double the value is applied to weapon damage(at least with Lasers). The actual value for a given score of extra power also seems to change depending on loadout, giving smaller returns for a more heavily-equipped ship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.209.196.99 (Talk) 02:41, 3 July 2016 (CEST)
A bit of testing later, and the damage bonus applies to all weapon types. The formula seems to be (Excess Boost) = 20% * (1 - Power Required/Power Supplied ), or 20% * (1 - Power Required / (Excess Power + Power Required) ), and half this value for the Speed and Evasion bonus. Ship type does not seem to matter, as I gained identical results with a Corvette, Destroyer and Battleship that had the same Power Requirements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.209.196.99 (Talk) 06:06, 3 July 2016 (CEST)
Very valuable information. Thanks for gathering that. Sounds solid enough you can work it into the wiki article. Basing it on power required would certainly account for diferences between ship size (bigger ships need more power due to more weapons). One question I have remaining is if we can get ahead by using smaler tier weapons (lower draw) without shields/other static power draw, thus getting more bonus and more effective damage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Founder (Talk) 06:38, 3 July 2016 (CEST)
The defence gain is negligable even on Corvettes, since the increase is a percentage boost to the static number(e.g a ship with an Evade of 20, and a Power boost of 5%, would have an Evade of 21). The offence boost on the other hand could be worthwhile. Cutoff points would be 33% excess(for 5%), 100% for 10%, or 300% for 15%. On a similar note, the main power drain on a Battleship is it's module, so it would be fairly easy to get these numbers by skipping that part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.209.196.99 (Talk) 07:09, 3 July 2016 (CEST)

How much are strike crafts sized to calculate damage reduction?

Currently there are no strike crafts using armor to protect themselves, but user modding may use strike craft armor. So I want a clear answer that how strike craft armor is worked.
- Guess 1: Strike craft armor uses ship armor calculator and strike crafts are sized 1 (or less?).
- Guess 2: Strike craft armor directly comes out to the damage reduction, for example, 0.9 armor means 90% damage reduction.
In my further in-game test, an armor value 52.5 is marked as 52, so that it can't directly be the damage reduction.
The remaining question is that how much are strike crafts sized to calculate damage reduction.
180.161.151.22 13:17, 5 March 2017 (CET)

Unexplained values: Cooldown, Windup

What units are these values in? In comparing the values in this article to the game data (Stellaris/common/component_templates/weapon_components.ods) the windup values match, but the cooldown values seem to have been scaled by a factor of approximately 0.15. (What is "windup" anyway? It's not explained anywhere in this wiki.) --Super aardvark (talk) 22:49, 8 March 2017 (CET)

Never mind, after some googling I figured it out. The values in the game data are in deciseconds. The windup values in the article are the same, but the cooldown values are in seconds and include the average windup. --Super aardvark (talk) 23:11, 8 March 2017 (CET)

General Characteristics Table

I'm struggling to work out what the "General Characteristics" table is telling me. Implication is it is some sort of summary table of the Energy/Kinetic/Explosive info below. There is a chance that if I don't understand it, some others won't either --PaulMClem (talk) 12:38, 25 May 2017 (CEST)

What part of it did you find hard to understand? If it's the column labels, they have tooltips. --Super aardvark (talk) 20:24, 25 May 2017 (CEST)
As an example, can you explain about the line for "Shard Throwers"? They are described as "K" but I can't see any reference to "Shard Throwers" in the Kinetic table below. Also searched the Wiki and can find no other reference to a "Shard Thrower". Just don't know how this table relates to the ones below, which it says it's a summary of --PaulMClem (talk) 23:40, 25 May 2017 (CEST)